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Author Topic: Freightliner Columbia Glider Kits
avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 10, 2011 15:55      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had been told that SNI was going to experiment with some glider kits. They took some of the old 2002 and 2003 Pre EGR engine trucks that have been running around and yanked the engines out to be used in glider kits. Not sure how many they did or are doing but I heard some are condos and some are midroof columbias. A friend caught one loading in Chicago today. Looks really good and probly will be the best performing engines in our fleet.

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Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Bigun
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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2011 15:19      Profile for Bigun     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kevin Rutherford from the Road Dog channel on satalite radio has been suggesting this for a while to guys that have the money and want to jump into the owner operator game. He says it's the way to go for some good MPG.
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Night Driver
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Icon 2 posted January 11, 2011 15:26      Profile for Night Driver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The driveline on 2002 & 2003 models have to have at least 800,000+ miles on them. I don't see the economy of the whole thing. Or am I overlooking something?

And why a Columbia when everything SNI has purchased in the past were ST's? I'm confused. (as usual)

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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2011 15:30      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Night Driver:
The driveline on 2002 & 2003 models have to have at least 800,000+ miles on them. I don't see the economy of the whole thing. Or am I overlooking something?

And why a Columbia when everything SNI has purchased in the past were ST's? I'm confused. (as usual)

Freightliner only offers the Columbia and older Coronado for Glider Kits.
Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Night Driver
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Icon 2 posted January 12, 2011 00:53      Profile for Night Driver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK that answers that about the Columbia verses ST thing.

It still sounds like quite a leap of faith to me. The reason I say that is because I am famaliar with the degree of or, more correctly put, lack of thourough maintance the driveline components recieve at the hands of your typical SNI shop facility.

The way I understand it SNI provides the minimum amount of care neccessary to insure the components survive the calculated life expectancy of the tractor. Anything beyond that takes you into uncharted territory so to speak.

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Capn Hector
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Icon 1 posted January 12, 2011 15:56      Profile for Capn Hector     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Night Driver:
OK that answers that about the Columbia verses ST thing.

It still sounds like quite a leap of faith to me. The reason I say that is because I am famaliar with the degree of or, more correctly put, lack of thourough maintance the driveline components recieve at the hands of your typical SNI shop facility.

The way I understand it SNI provides the minimum amount of care neccessary to insure the components survive the calculated life expectancy of the tractor. Anything beyond that takes you into uncharted territory so to speak.

i think they are rebuilding the engines before they go into the gliders. its what i was thinking about but then i looked at the numbers and decided im going to be an accountant
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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 12, 2011 17:18      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Beleive engines were rebuilt at Detroit Diesel.
Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
grandinosour
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2011 00:48      Profile for grandinosour     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Heh Heh...anyway to beat the government stronghold has on us through the EPA.....YEAH!!!!!
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Phantom56
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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2011 12:12      Profile for Phantom56     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess this explains the awfully new looking Columbia flattops I saw at Indy the other day. New white Columbia flattops wearing very old-looking numbers (37xxx).

I imagine that a tractor that has spent its entire life running a low-mile dedicated account would have a good drivetrain to transplant into a glider kit.

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Red Fender
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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2011 13:43      Profile for Red Fender   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom56:
I guess this explains the awfully new looking Columbia flattops I saw at Indy the other day. New white Columbia flattops wearing very old-looking numbers (37xxx).

I imagine that a tractor that has spent its entire life running a low-mile dedicated account would have a good drivetrain to transplant into a glider kit.

If that is the case, using the number of the unit the power train came from, maintenance would just have to plug in the old unit's number to get a work history on the new unit. Talk about an example of a run-on sentence [thumb]
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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 20, 2011 17:36      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Caught this SNI Columbia Glider Kit heading east along I-84 near Boardman, OR last sunday. Truck # 30005(Wonder if thats the same power unit # the engine was originally in?).

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Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Phantom56
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Icon 1 posted January 24, 2011 03:31      Profile for Phantom56     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
went back thru Indy the other day, in addition to the white Columbia flattops they have some orange condos that have shown up as well. Looked likke Centuries, judging from the hood vent openings since all I got to see was a back-angle view.
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John Q. Public
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2011 21:00      Profile for John Q. Public     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not to sound stupid because everyone else posting here seems to know what they are talking about but...what is a glider kit?
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Roadwarrior
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2011 03:23      Profile for Roadwarrior     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by John Q. Public:
Not to sound stupid because everyone else posting here seems to know what they are talking about but...what is a glider kit?

Basically its a truck tractor without an engine and transmission.
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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2011 06:26      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by John Q. Public:
Not to sound stupid because everyone else posting here seems to know what they are talking about but...what is a glider kit?

A glider kit is a brand new tractor that just has a rebuit engine and transmission installed. The engine has to be one that was available on that model of tractor when they were originally offered, so for examble you couldnt put a 2002(Pre EGR) engine in a Cascadia glider as the cascadia didnt exist in 2002. Even though the engines are 2002 & 2003's these glider kits are classified as a 2011 model truck.
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chunkinpunkin
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2011 10:29      Profile for chunkinpunkin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
it is the complete drivetrain that is installed, engine, transmission, and rear ends
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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2011 14:01      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chunkinpunkin:
it is the complete drivetrain that is installed, engine, transmission, and rear ends

There are actually 2 different types of Glider Kits. A true glider doesnt come with a new rear end, but "rolling gliders" do and I beleive that is what SNI went with.
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John Q. Public
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2011 01:29      Profile for John Q. Public     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, makes sense. Thanks for the replies
Posts: 33 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Red Fender
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2011 13:42      Profile for Red Fender   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I saw a new Pumpkin toting a Columbia Glider to West Memphis, Monday, across I-40, in west TN

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LSI
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Icon 1 posted February 02, 2011 13:00            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just seen a glider kit columbia here at the Flying J. In jeffersonville, Oh. True glider kit. No rears.
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Phantom56
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Icon 1 posted February 04, 2011 04:33      Profile for Phantom56     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I saw that "Schneider glider" being hauled across I-40 when I was heading east from Memphis.

I also saw a bunch of old tractor parked atWest Memphis marked either "Copart" or "Glider".

Guess SNI is sending the glider donors out somewhere to be parted out for the engines, tranmissions & rear-ends.

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DonRobbie
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2011 02:13      Profile for DonRobbie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom56:
I saw that "Schneider glider" being hauled across I-40 when I was heading east from Memphis.

I also saw a bunch of old tractor parked atWest Memphis marked either "Copart" or "Glider".

Guess SNI is sending the glider donors out somewhere to be parted out for the engines, tranmissions & rear-ends.

The ones I have seen have been done at Clarke Power Services (Detroit diesel)
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grandinosour
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2011 15:13      Profile for grandinosour     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know...I wouldn't mind having one of those trucks....You would be guaranteed to not go to California or to the northeast.
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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2011 17:31      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by grandinosour:
You know...I wouldn't mind having one of those trucks....You would be guaranteed to not go to California or to the northeast.

And not have to wait in line at the first pump at Pilot to get Urea.
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Red Fender
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2011 04:27      Profile for Red Fender   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom56:
I saw that "Schneider glider" being hauled across I-40 when I was heading east from Memphis.

Talk about small world. Either I was clearing the bears out of your way, out of there, or you were cannon fodder for me [Wink]

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rightlane
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Icon 45 posted February 06, 2011 07:01      Profile for rightlane     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No DEF in our Cascadia,and not going to the left or east coast..LOL. Will help out at the Pilot DEF pump though.
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max
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2011 11:26      Profile for max         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
it strikes me as being pretty strange that a large company like schneider would try/test the glider kits

most major companies have made their choices..ie last year trans am trucking ordered 1000 new kenworths,... meanwhile the number 3 trucking firm schneider has some cascadia, volvos, t2000, mexican centuries and columbia gliders

something is not right at schneider. they need to pick a truck and stick with it, trying old gliders is just a penny pinching step to cut costs and try to improve profits...i agree with some here, schneider is on the block

running gliders which will not even be legal in 3 years doesn't make sense

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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2011 15:54      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by max:
it strikes me as being pretty strange that a large company like schneider would try/test the glider kits

most major companies have made their choices..ie last year trans am trucking ordered 1000 new kenworths,... meanwhile the number 3 trucking firm schneider has some cascadia, volvos, t2000, mexican centuries and columbia gliders

something is not right at schneider. they need to pick a truck and stick with it, trying old gliders is just a penny pinching step to cut costs and try to improve profits...i agree with some here, schneider is on the block

running gliders which will not even be legal in 3 years doesn't make sense

The volvos, and Kenworths are leased and not owned. Where did you hear Gliders are going to be illegal in 3 years???
Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
GHelmly
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2011 04:19      Profile for GHelmly   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is a shop on the West Bound side of I-70 between St Louis and Kansas City that is doing these gliders for SNI also I believe, there are alot of old trucks sitting out front with their rears removed.... and it looked like a couple brand new columbia's sitting out back... guess waiting on someone to pick them up for delivery to an OC! [thumb]

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grandinosour
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2011 13:13      Profile for grandinosour     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by max:
it strikes me as being pretty strange that a large company like schneider would try/test the glider kits

most major companies have made their choices..ie last year trans am trucking ordered 1000 new kenworths,... meanwhile the number 3 trucking firm schneider has some cascadia, volvos, t2000, mexican centuries and columbia gliders

something is not right at schneider. they need to pick a truck and stick with it, trying old gliders is just a penny pinching step to cut costs and try to improve profits...i agree with some here, schneider is on the block

running gliders which will not even be legal in 3 years doesn't make sense

If I was a large trucking company owner, I would not want to have all the same style truck....what would happen if Schneider chose just one truck model and that model turned out to be a worthless pile of junk.

And what is wrong with cutting cost and improving profits????

I see these gliders as a huge cost saver....

Just think, these trucks may cost a little more than a plain new truck in the beginning, but, those old pre-emission Detroit's are very efficient motors and the cost saving could be huge.

I ask again....WHAT IS WRONG WITH PROFIT????

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max
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2011 23:01      Profile for max         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
jb hunt, probably the most similar company to schneider, just order 5000 new prostars

no big companies are ordering gliders

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jackc
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Icon 1 posted February 10, 2011 07:53      Profile for jackc     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe Schneider is using the lousy track record with the new emissions engines, it is looking at cutting maintenance and down time by using Gliders? From what I hear, the newer EGR, DPF and SCR technologies are a huge PITA to deal with.

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max
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Icon 1 posted February 10, 2011 08:56      Profile for max         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i fail to see how you cut maint. cost by putting a million mile+ drivetrain in a glider...knowing it will be maintained by schneider.

for an i/c glider is a great alternative

for schneider, reliability is number one

that great mileage get squashed in 2014 when you put a dpf on it, and there is zero resale value, who would buy a glider with a million and a half on the drivetrain?

all i know is every other co is doing one thing, buying trucks...schneider is not, they don't have a long range plan, just short range solutions i think the bean counters are putting off the very large expense of updating the fleet inorder to make the p/l look good

i think gliders are a big red flag

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Phantom56
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Icon 1 posted February 10, 2011 13:39      Profile for Phantom56     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think differently. SNI is only getting about 500 to 600 "Schneider Gliders" from what I was told this past weekend.

This is either a message to the truck manufacturers or the government over the poor performance and high weight of the new trucks.

I also see this as a future deal in the making for wanna-be owner operators. If you're looking to buy a truck in a couple of years, a glider with a few hundred thousand miles on it would be very attractive.

I'm seriously thinking about the idea of a glider right now. If I can get a good quote on an "out-the-shop" price for one with a freshly remanufactured engine and rebuilt trans and rearends I might just pull the trigger on a deal.

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avsfan118
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Icon 1 posted February 10, 2011 17:59      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by max:
jb hunt, probably the most similar company to schneider, just order 5000 new prostars

no big companies are ordering gliders

Beleive Werner has some Columbia gliders too taht are being used on Dollar General accounts. Someone posted a pic of one of these new columbias on another forum back in November.
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jackc
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Icon 1 posted February 11, 2011 08:33      Profile for jackc     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Max, I guess I was not thinking they would put a million mile drivetrain in a glider..it never occured to me. That would be like buying a 2011 Camaro and pulling a drivetrain from a 1958 Impala in it. Would anyone do that without rebuilding everything? I see no advantage in that, and as stated my someone, reliability is crucial to Schneider. I guess that is why it never occured to me they would do that.

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Dab5811
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Icon 1 posted February 11, 2011 09:18      Profile for Dab5811     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jackc:
Max, I guess I was not thinking they would put a million mile drivetrain in a glider..it never occured to me. That would be like buying a 2011 Camaro and pulling a drivetrain from a 1958 Impala in it. Would anyone do that without rebuilding everything? I see no advantage in that, and as stated my someone, reliability is crucial to Schneider. I guess that is why it never occured to me they would do that.

It is not a million mile drive train. It is completely rebuilt. They reuse the frame and axle assembly. The motor is pulled and rebuilt, the frame sandblasted and repainted the axles assembly rebuilt. This is a rebuilt truck. Nothing is reused without being rebuilt.
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grandinosour
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Icon 1 posted February 11, 2011 11:45      Profile for grandinosour     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jackc:
Max, I guess I was not thinking they would put a million mile drivetrain in a glider..it never occured to me. That would be like buying a 2011 Camaro and pulling a drivetrain from a 1958 Impala in it. Would anyone do that without rebuilding everything? I see no advantage in that, and as stated my someone, reliability is crucial to Schneider. I guess that is why it never occured to me they would do that.

Your camero, Impala, comparison is not the same....you don't have to make a profit from a camero...these trucks are a business tool.
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Night Driver
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Icon 2 posted February 12, 2011 23:31      Profile for Night Driver     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've gotten some feedback from some of the shop contacts I have and a maintanance guy in G.B.

The driver responses to the new Cascadias is simply awfull. Its nearly unanamously bad particularily for the 2011 models.

The primary complaints are lack of or missing quality controll and the inability to keep the things out of the shop. Stays for repairs are also significantly longer than for past models.

Whether this situation is primarily related to economic conditions or to a decline in the already questionable quality of Freightliners product is still up in the air.

The glider project, so far, has been suprisingly well recieved. Perhaps its the relatively low number of units or the newness of them that has not had sufficient time for problems to crop up.

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rightlane
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Icon 45 posted February 12, 2011 23:52      Profile for rightlane     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Have to agree with Night Driver on the quality control on the Cascadia. Our side boxes are mis- saligned and dont seal, the CB antenna gathers ice and bangs on the side of the cab, and the bunk control panel lites are way too bright. Seems you have a nite lite back there. Saw one of the new gliders on I-70 Kansas the other day-nice ride.
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jackc
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2011 02:00      Profile for jackc     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dab- my point exactly. the drivetrain would have been rebuilt before being put in a glider. I may have been wrong, but got the impression I got was that some folks thought they would put a million mile drivetrain in the glider WITHOUT rebuilding it.
grandinonsour- I think I understand what you are saying, and I was trying to make the point above. Taking a new Camaro (glider) and put the old Impala drive train (million mile) in it without first rebuilding it.

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Bigdog21
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Icon 1 posted March 25, 2011 09:50      Profile for Bigdog21     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Surprising given Schneiders' history with International that they haven't gone with the ProStar and dumped the Fruitliners! No DEF to mess with to boot.
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skidpad
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Icon 1 posted March 25, 2011 11:40      Profile for skidpad     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From talking with the guys in the carlisle shop. the gliders are going to serve as a bridge to get past some of the problems they are having with the Cascadias, of which i am in one. They are using a loophole in the emmisions laws, that will run out in 3 years, and they are not legal in CA, as they are their own world out there. Again, just passing along what I hear trying to get the bugs worked out of my truck.

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tangelo
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Icon 1 posted March 25, 2011 23:18      Profile for tangelo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
International doesn't use DEF because they are using emission credits earned from previous years. I think they'll run out next year. Schneider wouldn't really gain a long term advantage from changing to the Prostar, insofar as DEF is concerned.

btw, I think the glider idea is pretty good. Those pre-2003 motors were much more efficient and reliable. The guberment really screwed up diesel motors from '03 to present.

Posts: 46 | From: Jacksonville | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
hacksaw
10th Gear Member
Member # 1589

Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 12:45      Profile for hacksaw     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by avsfan118:
quote:
Originally posted by John Q. Public:
Not to sound stupid because everyone else posting here seems to know what they are talking about but...what is a glider kit?

A glider kit is a brand new tractor that just has a rebuit engine and transmission installed. The engine has to be one that was available on that model of tractor when they were originally offered, so for examble you couldnt put a 2002(Pre EGR) engine in a Cascadia glider as the cascadia didnt exist in 2002. Even though the engines are 2002 & 2003's these glider kits are classified as a 2011 model truck.
You can legally put an old mechanical engine in a Coronado if you want to. Lots of misinfo in this thread about gliders. For once it sounds like SNI is doing something smart. They're not putting junk engines in these gliders with worn out drivetrains.

________________________________
I bleed diesel!

Posts: 1225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
hacksaw
10th Gear Member
Member # 1589

Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 12:50      Profile for hacksaw     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
uggh!! I see the edit function is still disabled around here... They're not putting worn out drive trains in these gliders, of course that's already been pointed out several times. Glider is the only way to go. Can someone source the comment "gliders are completely illegal to operate in 3 years" besides some stupid regulations going into effect in the bankrupt, lunatic fringe state of Kalifornia?

________________________________
I bleed diesel!

Posts: 1225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
avsfan118
8th Gear Member
Member # 7412

Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 13:30      Profile for avsfan118   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by hacksaw:
quote:
Originally posted by avsfan118:
quote:
Originally posted by John Q. Public:
Not to sound stupid because everyone else posting here seems to know what they are talking about but...what is a glider kit?

A glider kit is a brand new tractor that just has a rebuit engine and transmission installed. The engine has to be one that was available on that model of tractor when they were originally offered, so for examble you couldnt put a 2002(Pre EGR) engine in a Cascadia glider as the cascadia didnt exist in 2002. Even though the engines are 2002 & 2003's these glider kits are classified as a 2011 model truck.
You can legally put an old mechanical engine in a Coronado if you want to. Lots of misinfo in this thread about gliders. For once it sounds like SNI is doing something smart. They're not putting junk engines in these gliders with worn out drivetrains.
Yes you can get the Coronado in a glider kit as well as the Argosy.
Posts: 802 | From: Gresham, OR (Portland Intermodal Driver) | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
LSI
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted April 01, 2011 12:50            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fitzgerald Truck Sales. In tennessee.
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